National Anti-Fracking Group Launched...

Obviously you are well-removed from the potential impacts...

Let me guess, "not in my backyard" right...?

When I see peer reviewed science that says fracking contaminates anything, I'll believe it.

For now, all the legitimate science points to a safe process.

The chemicals they use are safe in drinking water? How about you have a glass of them to be sure for us.

The "evidence" bantered about earlier this year was thoroughly disproven as natural chemicals in trace amounts.

You provide the claim, you link the evidence.

The ole post and run?

... or maybe he realised that outrageous lies, distortion and propaganda
aren't terribly welcome around here ...?

Nevermind

{Whatever you do, don't click on the cricket}

at least, that's what it appears.

As someone who has studied geology for some 40+ years in an amateur realm, after studying geology for 3 years in college, I cannot agree that fracking is a safe process.
I may not have any peer reviewed studies, but I do know that when you drill down a mile and a half, there is no way to know what faults there are in the upper formations, where gas and fracking fluids could migrate, and eventually contaminate the ground water.

On the other hand, there are studies that were done many years ago, where it was found that injecting water (fluid) into a well, lubricated faults, causing earthquakes. How is this safe?

Peer reviewed science can be biased, depending on who funds the study, and who funds the peers.

just recently shut their doors after it was found that industry groups were funding research and leveraging the findings at the 'institute' in very flattering ways.

So yes, the science behind this can be biased; and in this case was very much so.

http://blog.timesunion.com/green/university-at-buffalo-pulls-plug-on-natural-gas-hydrofracking-institute/4306/

Because recent studies are finding that natural gas derived from fracking have the potential to be even worse for the climate than burning coal: http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/155101-report-gas-from-fracking-worse-than-coal-on-climate



Or is contamination of the planet's atmosphere not a problem for you?

Fracking isn't any kind of technological achievement that benefits anyone, not even the rich ultimately. But they are too greedy and myopic to realize the permanent damage they are doing to the Earth and its ability to sustain us.

You can't drink money, but these Oil and Gas fools don't seem to get that yet.

But if you want to ignore scientific study after scientific study in lieu of your "gut" or whatever you anti-science folks are believing in nowadays, go ahead.

Besides, what's a little flammable gas coming out of people's water faucets? That's nothing to be concerned about, right?

...be flamable.

These kinds of things have been happening since wells were first drilled.

Do you think the methane in coal mines got there from fracking too?

admittedly, a result of well drilling.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/08/dimock-pennsylvania-epa_n_1192180.html

So why rescind the offer?

Would that imply that the government believes there to be an issue?

...suddenly begin producing the gas for no apparent reason?

good try but I don't buy your "natural methane" spin

I worked in the industry, and fell for all the bullshit about it being safe. I saw the harm it does. The whole thing.... industry and all... are full of bullshit. Fracking is NOT safe. The leasing that they do on the land is NOT equitable or morally right. The whole thing STINKS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021945482#post6

Pics of accident site:



More pics -- https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&q=%22Bayou+Corne%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=ni&ei=CeHCUMzBE4rc9AS-nYHYBA&biw=1024&bih=573&sei=IOHCUMfgHZKy9gS_14GwCg

Although I'm sure Big Oil supports your post.

They were right about that.

?rev=2012-08-31+04:53:14

Not worth it.

--we have to pull together against this nasty business.

DU's H2O Man is an activist in the northeast and made several threads on his work to stop fracking. Also DUer MadameSilverspurs made threads on it. These are respected members here.

Organizations who are a part of the group, not an inconsequential list of those against fracking. I've emboldened the ones I have heard about. I think we should consider what they are saying here:

350.org
350 Winston Salem
Advocates for Morris
Athens County Fracking Action Network
Back to Democracy
Baldwin Hills Oil Watch
Berks Gas Truth
Blue Ridge Environmental Defense League
Boulder County Citizens for Community
Breast Cancer Action
Catskill Mountainkeeper
Center for Biological Diversity
Citizens Against Drilling on Public Lands
Citizens’ Environmental Coalition
Citizens for Clean Water
City of Binghamton Against Fracking
Colchester Programming Partners
Common Ground Green Building Center
Communities United for Rights and Environment
Community Research
Concerned Citizens of Danby
Concerned Citizens of Ulysses
Cook Inlet Keeper
Coos Waterkeeper
CREDO Action
Cuyahoga County Concerned Citizens
CWA Local 1081
Delaware Riverkeeper Network
Democracy for America
Don’t Frack Michigan
East Boulder County United
Environmental Priorities Network
Erie Rising
Family Farm Defenders
Food & Water Watch
Frack Action
Frack Files
Frack Free Culver City
Frack Free Genesee
Frack Free Ohio
Frack Free Stark County
Friends of Butternuts
Genesis Farms
Gila Resources Information Project
Global Exchange
Green Environmental Coalition
Green Party of NJ
Green Retirement Plans
Greenpeace USA
Groton Resource Awareness Coalition
Haw River Assembly
Hydroquest
Illinois People’s Action
Interfaith Sacred Earth Coalition
Iowa Citizens for Community Improvement
Lakewood Fractivist
Las Vegas NM Peace & Justice Center
Lehigh Valley Gas Truth
Maryland PIRG
Mecklenburg Audubon Society
Michigan Citizens for Water Conservation
Montgomery County Young Dems
The Mother’s Project
National Nurses United
Neuse Riverkeeper Foundation
New Jersey Highlands Coalition
New Mexico Wilderness Alliance
New Yorkers Against Fracking
No Fracking in Stokes
Northwest Ohio Alliance to Stop Fracking
NYC Friends of Clearwater
Occupy Well Street
Occupy Winston Salem
Oregon Citizens Against the Pipeline
The Other 98%
Otsego 2000
Our Longmont
Pennsylvania Alliance for Clean Water and Air
Peters Township Marcellus Shale Awareness Group
Rainforest Action Network
Residents Against Fracking Tioga
The River Project
Rochester Defense Against Fracking
Rogue Riverkeeper
Russian Riverkeeper
Sane Energy
Sea Savers
Shaleshock Action Alliance
Silver Valley Waterkeeper
Southeast Ohio Alliance to Save Our Water
Southern Illinoisans Against Fracturing Our Environment
Southwest Environmental Center
Sullivan Area Citizens for Responsible Energy Development
Sustainable Otsego
Sustainable Tompkins
SW Ohio No Frack Forum
Tennessee Riverkeeper
Thomas Merton Center
Three Parks Independent Democrats
Unitarian Universalist Church of Greeley
Unitarian Universalist Legislative Ministry of New Jersey
United for Action
Vermont Natural Resources Council
Vestal Residents for Safe Energy
Vermont PIRG
Water Equality
Waterspirit
Western Environmental Law Center
What the Frack?!
Williams County Alliance
WNY Drilling Defense
Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom, US Section.

http://www.americansagainstfracking.org/members/

the first Earth Day. This is what the Democratic Party is supposed to be about. I've worked with PIRG and other groups in the past. They are not fools.

The only argument I can see to make one reluctant to mobilize is that it is an old and dirty environmental practice and by that reasoning, it's tried and true, so don't make a fuss. But we've had terrible practices since this country began, destroying the life giving properties of the land, air and water.

They were cleaned up with regulations and that has been gutted since the Reagan era. It hasn't stopped, and the GOP has sold the poor on the belief that a clean ecosystem is a luxury they can't afford. This is wrong.

Some may say that there have been improvements made, but as Obama stopped the first of the fracking in tribal country, the input of the people has to be taken into account. But those who are making money off of it, like those who make money off of mountain removal to get at coal, will defend it vigorously.

In a weaker economy than in the past, people are going for it because they feel they have no choice. There is a big problem with mineral rights not going along with real estate property owners for those who in areas that the oil companies want to frack. Americans need to unite to fight this.

Environmentalism was a core Democratic Party value as I've known it, but it's been demonized for so long, it's barely in the debates, not national and certainly not on the local level. It's a real hard sell to get neighbors who see a big check coming from fracking, either by selling what's under their land or working the rigs, to say 'No.'

Guess in the end, this is what we have to work against, and we in the cities are really not in charge of it:

See above...

his outrageous comments and either ignorant or outright lying BS

Or refuse to re-evaluate their comments based on those given them. While I did not give him the science, it's been widely quoted on DU.

Even the fact that it is in fact not a new practice at all, but now being applied where it should not be was disclosed on another thread. Even if there was no real issue with the people who are against it, there is real problem with social responsibility that loudsue made a clear case on.

The examples of methane or other gases under the ground escaping are not what we're talking about and anyone who reads the replies sees the poster that you mention did not make a logical process. It was all over the place. But I'm going to leave off giving him a bad time as we can have a productive discussion without discussing his errors.

I am glad to hear of a group forming on this with so many different kinds of activists involved. I also want as Democrats for us to address the greater problem of employment for those who work on this industry, want a living wage for work an environmentally helpful and not destructive.

We need an altnerative to this for those people to get their support, and to press alternative energies and consevation. We have got to get serious about finding the solutions on this.

Above all, we must protect the nation's natural water supply. We do not want to become dependent on a system such as the some countries who never had decent water and have to use seawater processed through a desalinization plant.

We have been very fortunate to have a continent to live on that should be able to sustain all of our needs. Fracking is not going to allow that to happen.

I'd like to see how "science" proves them all wrong.

People get real hostile when they think their job is on the line, even if they know deep inside it's harming the environment or people.

I have a friend whose brother was an engineer who quit his job last year but that's not the case for some. He'd gone to college and trained for years in his field, but he saw the direction it was taking. In other words, he'd invested a lot of time and money even with his scientific training, but felt he had to quit.

We can't judge people too harshly who don't have the education and ability to do something else. When you have someone who sounds ignorant and is making dismissive comments not based on facts, they likely are afraid they will not get another job that pays as well so they'll hold on tight. They believe they are doing the right thing by their families.

Americans are in a tight place, like people in other countries who are burning forests, destroying habitat, polluting the air and water and they'll defend what they are doing. They don't want to believe they are doing wrong, and we will provide for them, either. Our friend's ideology or comments may be based on need and not knowledge. Who knows.

This thread is turning out pretty well.

...but facts are facts; and all the apologists in the world can't change them.

Sure, I have compassion for the poacher who hunts endangered creatures to feed his family; but I don't expect him to try and convince me that it's right.

what we're up against in this battle, as some of these people are afraid and it translates into anger and denial.

As loudsue answered above:

28. Man. You're waaaayyyyy off base.

I worked in the industry, and fell for all the bullshit about it being safe. I saw the harm it does. The whole thing.... industry and all... are full of bullshit. Fracking is NOT safe. The leasing that they do on the land is NOT equitable or morally right. The whole thing STINKS.

I tried to argue the case a while back to another poster, who said he was making a lot of money off of it, and so were a lot of others who had traveled to the boom towns built these facilities. Essentially, he told me that we didn't understand, and not to put him down, and to STFU.

Much environmental activism failed from not taking into account the sad fact people are invested in this in rural areas because they are not being offered alternatives. They work for big land owners and whoever with money comes into town. I worked with organizations against mining firms removing mountains.

The locals who worked for the companies were hostile and eventually got their way. There was no reasoning with them whatsoever. We explained all that was wrong, financially, morally, ecologically. It was all about their jobs. What do we offer them?

My only suggestion would be government funded jobs for building infrastructure. They need an alternative - we didn't give them one. While funds are held hostage as they have been for four years, people in rural areas will look to be saved by corporations that promise them a job.

We have to take a multi-level approach, to empower them to say not to fracking. That is not apologizing.

...infer that you are an apologist; you're making perfect sense here. In fact, the divisions you're speaking of play a large part in the plot of the movie "Promised Land." I heard RFK Jr. talking about it in a Huff Post interview...



Here's the trailer:

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s reputation as a resolute defender of the environment stems from a litany of successful legal actions. Mr. Kennedy was named one of Time magazine's “Heroes for the Planet” for his success helping Riverkeeper lead the fight to restore the Hudson River. The group's achievement helped spawn over 190 Waterkeeper organizations across the globe.

Mr. Kennedy serves as Senior Attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council, Chief Prosecuting Attorney for the Hudson Riverkeeper and President of Waterkeeper Alliance. He is also a Clinical Professor and Supervising Attorney at Pace University School of Law’s Environmental Litigation Clinic and is co-host of Ring of Fire on Air America Radio. Earlier in his career he served as Assistant District Attorney in New York City.

He has worked on environmental issues across the Americas and has assisted several indigenous tribes in Latin America and Canada in successfully negotiating treaties protecting traditional homelands. He is credited with leading the fight to protect New York City's water supply. The New York City watershed agreement, which he negotiated on behalf of environmentalists and New York City watershed consumers, is regarded as an international model in stakeholder consensus negotiations and sustainable development.

Among Mr. Kennedy's published books are the New York Times’ bestseller Crimes Against Nature (2004), The Riverkeepers (1997), and Judge Frank M. Johnson, Jr: A Biography (1977) and two children’s books St Francis of Assisi (2005), American Heroes: Joshua Chamberlain and the American Civil War and Robert Smalls: The Boat Thief (2008). His articles have appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek, Rolling Stone, Atlantic Monthly, Esquire, The Nation, Outside Magazine, The Village Voice, and many other publications. His award winning articles have been included in anthologies of America’s Best Crime Writing, Best Political Writing and Best Science Writing.

Mr. Kennedy is a graduate of Harvard University. He studied at the London School of Economics and received his law degree from the University of Virginia Law School. Following graduation he attended Pace University School of Law, where he was awarded a Masters Degree in Environmental Law.

He is a licensed master falconer, and as often as possible he pursues a life-long enthusiasm for white-water paddling. He has organized and led several expeditions in Canada and Latin America, including first descents on three little known rivers in Peru, Colombia, and Venezuela.

http://www.waterkeeper.org/ht/d/sp/i/10558/pid/10558

until we know much more about it. Yes there is substantial evidence this is harmful to the environment up to and including possibly triggering small earthquakes.

But I'm not one to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I would suggest a moratorium until sufficient independent study and analysis has been done.

Based on the outcomes of that independent work, policies regarding this methodology would be appropriate.

It may turn out that the practice is simply unsafe, period. If so then a permanent ban is perfectly in order.

If we find out that it can be safely done in certain, limited conditions, then craft policy and legislation accordingly.

But I think it is easy to be knee-jerk on this kind of thing. I am seriously concerned about it but think a moratorium until more is known is the appropriate course, for now.

Don't overlook how much money and influence Oil and Gas wield over our government officials. Do you honestly think it is in the industry's best interest to see a moratorium placed on fracking? They want to make their billions now, before people backed with years of research and evidence can effectively shut them down. By that time, it's already too late to prevent the negative environmental effects of fracking from occurring.

Being knee-jerk is perfectly okay when it's the only real defense you've got between preservation and destruction.

...after which you'll likely know more than you ever wanted to know about the hazards of fracking -- and the countless victims who lost their health and entire quality of life.

I was sickened just watching.

Earth is still our only home. If we mess up the planet beyond repair, it SHALL result in human extinction.

Rather than exploit the environment and drill, baby, drill, why are we not looking more at less harmful means of power production like tidal, small scale hydro, and solar?

And another thing. Why have I not heard the word conservation, or the phrase, use less energy being used? I see so many people driving SUVs, and trucks with nobody else in them. Why is there not a move on to make this sort of transportation not look cool, but look evil, because it is, at it has no concern for our only home planet.

The environment should be the NUMBER ONE topic on everyone's list, because without a planet with an environment to sustain human life, and sustain it, we are all doomed.

Corporations don't care about their grandchildren, they only care about the next quarter's profit.

Isn't it more than slightly ironic that conservatism has become synonymous with mindless excess?

That overseas, what is called "conservative" here is called, neo-liberal capitalism there!

...And with 8 years of oil men in the WH -- virtually all the hard-fought environmental regulation over oil & gas has been eviscerated. Family values?

this months NNU publication (sent to every nurse in the union) had this article:

http://nurses.3cdn.net/39c3056f1d418b5a7f_xfm6bkbib.pdf

All Fracked Up

Communities across the country are being poisoned by
toxic chemicals used in natural gas drilling that the
energy companies want to keep top secret. What every
RN needs to know about fracking, and how they must
fight back against the industry

too late for us in ND...

The Nation has an excellent article about the effects of fracking. http://www.thenation.com/article/171504/fracking-our-food-supply.

Good to see movement against it.

They need to be stopped!

President Obama will continue to take steps to safely and responsibly develop natural gas in a way that can help fuel our economy and, according to industry experts, support more than 600,000 jobs by the end of the decade. From fueling our vehicles to our homes, natural gas has a large role to play in the clean energy economy. The President supports policies that will unlock American ingenuity to help find more ways to use natural gas in the transportation sector; providing incentives to grow a clean transportation fleet that runs on this abundant domestic energy source. Natural gas can do all of this in a way that still safeguards our environment and public health. To ensure that hydraulic fracking is done in a safe and responsible manner, President Obama has proposed a number of safeguards to protect against water contamination and air pollution. These common sense requirements ask companies to publicly disclose chemicals used in hydraulic fracturing and to protect drinking water sources across 750 million acres of public and tribal lands. And we recently finalized standards to require operators of new fractured natural gas wells to use cost-effective technologies and practices to capture pollutants which contribute to smog formation, and air toxics, including benzene and hexane, which can cause cancer and other serious health effects.

http://mobile.mlive.com/advbaycity/pm_29269/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=XGFXRsaX&rwthr=0

He wouldn't have made it this far in politics if he didn't understand that nobody can take on big oil head on and win.

Oil companies are setting the policy.

...guaranteeing that new wells will be safe?

Also:"These common sense requirements ask companies to publicly disclose chemicals used in hydraulic fracturing."

"And we recently finalized standards (who will enforce them?) to require operators of new fractured natural gas wells (old dirty wells will be allowed to remain, regardless of regulation ettempts) to use cost-effective technologies and practices to capture pollutants which contribute to smog formation, and air toxics, including benzene and hexane, which can cause cancer and other serious health effects."

This is a toothless and meaningless policy statement.

Duke study finds “systematic evidence for methane contamination of drinking water associated with shale gas extraction
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2011/05/10/208062/duke-study-methane-drinking-water-shale-gas/

...and thank you for weighing in on this incredibly important subject.

Yes, I hope that Americans Against Fracking takes off quickly; because the plans for fracking across our nation and the world are fast progressing.

The filthy practice of fracking is destroying the livelyhoods, quality of life, and the very lives of a countless and growing number of our people. It's ruining our land and waters, destroying homes and property values. It is poisoning men, women & children who are unable to relocate (some cannot move because they can't sell their worthless polluted property).

The practice is patently unconscionable!

http://www.americansagainstfracking.org/

My father-in-law is a geophysicist and chair of the Geophysics Dept. at Colorado State and I asked him about this and he said that it isn't as dangerous as it is being made out to be. He said that the cases of flammable water and things like that are rare. I mean obviously if this happens to you or someone you know its awful and makes it more of a threat. I asked him about the reports that fracking is bad etc... and he said that it is no worse than any other way we extract materials from the earth.

...the documentary, "Gasland"?

As my last post started I am no expert, so I asked one. I don't think this is an evolution/global warming type of consensus within the scientific community. But if stuff can happen like it does in Gasland, that scares the shit out of me. I lived in Texas for a few years and the tap water tasted like crap, not that fracking added to that but...

...made me ill just watching it. I was close to tears, thinking about how many lives have been, are being, and will be changed irrevocably by the immoral practices of big energy. It's far worse, and impacts more areas of life than most people are aware of.